Curse

Jeydra · Feb 20, 2009, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Life Attunement is a maintained enchantment, yes, and you can keep it on everyone. ER with enough spamming skills provides enough energy to maintain 14 enchantments if you so desire, although if you operate at this amount of energy degen you'll have to stop and refresh your energy very often (which is frustrating). That said, Spirit Bond, Protective Spirit and Aura of Restoration are enough to maintain 8 spells without stopping too often. That's enough to keep LA on the entire party, although of course you shouldn't maintain it on physical characters. Life Attunement is great, if you've not tried it before I suggest you do.

Div · Feb 22, 2009, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

The last word on this I hope is that Monks can do this with infuse then heal up with WoH although they don't need infuse as WoH is far better in PvE than any other heal along with DKiss and Patient Spirit.It is always best to prevent spikes using PS.

Example 1 with both players infusing--
Monk: Infuse, then heal up with WoH. Costs 15 energy and results in net health loss for you.
Ele: Infuse, and get healed automatically. Gains energy and no net health loss for you.

Example 2 with monk WoHing and ele infusing--
Monk: WoH for ~200, costs 5 energy
Ele: Infuse for ~300, gains energy

Tell me which is better.

What you aren't getting is that infuse isn't used to save spikes for the ele's case. It's used as a big heal that is easily spammable and simultaneously acting as emanagement.

The only downside, as I mentioned, is that you have to press more buttons than the monk or if ER gets stripped (which doesn't happen that often).

Age · Feb 23, 2009, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Example 1 with both players infusing--
Monk: Infuse, then heal up with WoH. Costs 15 energy and results in net health loss for you.
Ele: Infuse, and get healed automatically. Gains energy and no net health loss for you.

Example 2 with monk WoHing and ele infusing--
Monk: WoH for ~200, costs 5 energy
Ele: Infuse for ~300, gains energy

Tell me which is better.

What you aren't getting is that infuse isn't used to save spikes for the ele's case. It's used as a big heal that is easily spammable and simultaneously acting as emanagement.

The only downside, as I mentioned, is that you have to press more buttons than the monk or if ER gets stripped (which doesn't happen that often).

I guess my whole question this is why use infuse in pve when woh or zb are much better.!5 E isn't that much on a Monk if you want to bring gole when using infuse then woh costing only 5 E.The thing with ER is the recharge time of 30 sec. and if does gets stripped it is the Monk that will have to heal you up.

Eles in pve are mosrlty used for sole purpose on causing lots of aoe damage which is what a group expects or something other in earth or water.

Jeydra · Feb 23, 2009, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Reasons why Infuse > WoH:

1. Heals more (typically some 300 health vs. 250 at best).
2. Casts faster (1/4s >>>>> 3/4s).
3. No recharge (0s cooldown >>>> 3s cooldown).
4. WoH is elite, Infuse is not.

Reasons why WoH > Infuse:

1. Less energy cost (5e vs. 10e).
2. Health loss (Infuse costs 50% of current health, WoH does not).

Since ER removes both drawbacks (with 3 enchantments up, Infuse cost = -2 energy; with 3 enchantments up you restore some 100 health with every single cast), there's no reason why WoH is better than Infuse, and no reason why ZB is better than Infuse either. ER brings along other benefits as well - eg. you can now tank like a maniac (at least until you have to refresh ER), you can now maintain Life Attunement on everyone in the party, you can spam more prots than you may ever need - but in a straight comparison between Infuse and WoH it's clear Infuse is still better when you have ER up. If you lose ER though WoH is way superior.

ER recharge may be 30 seconds, but all ER bars include Glyph of Swiftness + at least 13 Energy Storage, which allows you to keep ER up almost indefinitely (about 1-2 seconds of downtime - hardly critical). Losing ER is a big drawback, everyone agrees, but since chances are you'll be full of energy whenever you lose ER, the party should not collapse and die. You just drop all maintained enchanments, use your Prots more carefully, stop using Infuse (that's what the other Monk is for right?) and ride out the remaining time till you can put ER back up.

I have a friend who's also a strong Monk, and she's told me before when we heal together that she'd strangle me for making her WoH seem so slow. Says something about how strong Infuse is, no? If you want to argue that a real Monk is still better, there are of course reasons and I gave them on the first two pages, but saying WoH > Infuse isn't one of them.

king_trouble · Feb 26, 2009, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Another serious drawback is if any of your healing spells gets d-shot, anything like that would seriously hinder you ability to heal.

SmokingHotImolation · Feb 26, 2009, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I guess my whole question this is why use infuse in pve when woh or zb are much better.!5 E isn't that much on a Monk if you want to bring gole when using infuse then woh costing only 5 E.The thing with ER is the recharge time of 30 sec. and if does gets stripped it is the Monk that will have to heal you up.

Eles in pve are mosrlty used for sole purpose on causing lots of aoe damage which is what a group expects or something other in earth or water.

He just explained to you why its much better. And why is people keep using enchant removal as an argument when there are no (heavy ones) in PvE? Even with chillblains/Esurge/Shatter enchant which are probably the most common, you will always have 1 to several cover enchants up on an ER bar.

Zodiac Meteor · Feb 26, 2009, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by king_trouble

Another serious drawback is if any of your healing spells gets d-shot, anything like that would seriously hinder you ability to heal.

No way! Interrupts causes problems for healers

? Well, first of all, your backline just like any monk. You shouldn't be targeted by everything (Not anything). Adding prots to your front line is good if there is any enchantment removal. Some reason people think that one thing gone, fail, gg. I've been playing this build for a while. If your dumb and start tanking (Like any monk) your going to have problems. If your smart and stay back but close enough for the front line, then you should be fine.

Age · Feb 26, 2009, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Reasons why Infuse > WoH:

1. Heals more (typically some 300 health vs. 250 at best).
2. Casts faster (1/4s >>>>> 3/4s).
3. No recharge (0s cooldown >>>> 3s cooldown).
4. WoH is elite, Infuse is not.

Reasons why WoH > Infuse:

1. Less energy cost (5e vs. 10e).
2. Health loss (Infuse costs 50% of current health, WoH does not).

Since ER removes both drawbacks (with 3 enchantments up, Infuse cost = -2 energy; with 3 enchantments up you restore some 100 health with every single cast), there's no reason why WoH is better than Infuse, and no reason why ZB is better than Infuse either. ER brings along other benefits as well - eg. you can now tank like a maniac (at least until you have to refresh ER), you can now maintain Life Attunement on everyone in the party, you can spam more prots than you may ever need - but in a straight comparison between Infuse and WoH it's clear Infuse is still better when you have ER up. If you lose ER though WoH is way superior.

ER recharge may be 30 seconds, but all ER bars include Glyph of Swiftness + at least 13 Energy Storage, which allows you to keep ER up almost indefinitely (about 1-2 seconds of downtime - hardly critical). Losing ER is a big drawback, everyone agrees, but since chances are you'll be full of energy whenever you lose ER, the party should not collapse and die. You just drop all maintained enchanments, use your Prots more carefully, stop using Infuse (that's what the other Monk is for right?) and ride out the remaining time till you can put ER back up.

I have a friend who's also a strong Monk, and she's told me before when we heal together that she'd strangle me for making her WoH seem so slow. Says something about how strong Infuse is, no? If you want to argue that a real Monk is still better, there are of course reasons and I gave them on the first two pages, but saying WoH > Infuse isn't one of them.

Oh good so my Monk can go out and use MS and SF if Eles are going to take over the Monking duties.

Improvavel · Feb 27, 2009, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Oh good so my Monk can go out and use MS and SF if Eles are going to take over the Monking duties.

Why on earth do you want to throw MS and SF around?

To tickle the enemy mobs and make them scatter all around laughing at you?

Snow Bunny · Feb 27, 2009, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Oh good so my Monk can go out and use MS and SF if Eles are going to take over the Monking duties.

Ok. Get this.

The Ele has stronger heals and more energy.

The ele can do it better. A monk can't nuke better.

Understand?

Age · Feb 27, 2009, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Ok. Get this.

The Ele has stronger heals and more energy.

The ele can do it better. A monk can't nuke better.

Understand?

Eles have stronger heals heard of Divine Favour and if you play Monk you are doing them a disservice.eles are for nuking and monks are for healing maybe infuse should be moved to Divine Favour.

Monks can't nuke hey sure about that.

Lusciious · Feb 27, 2009, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Watch my monk kill with [arcane echo] + [ray of judgment]. talk about can't nuke for shit.

[Ether Renewal] Healers can never beat a monk. simply because for a monk, you can also spam heals with [glyph of renewal] + [divine spirit] AND ER isn't maintainable and you need maintain a certain number of enchants on yourself before ER would be used to its fullest potential but with GoR + DS, you don't need anything and its MAINTAINABLE

if you were to say GoR would be a wasted elite, wouldn't ER be wasted as well ? you would also not have [word of healing] so whats the difference ? and monks can have up to 14-16 in healing prayer attribute whereas an ele can't.

accept it, ER Eles are only better than monks at protting.

nuff said.

eles should just go back and do their insane AoE damage. e.g. [savannah heat]

Jeydra · Feb 27, 2009, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Who cares if Infuse is moved to Divine Favour, even at 0 spec Infuse heals for 300+ health, beating WoH @ 16 Healing Prayers + 15 Divine Favour + <50% health. You seem utterly unable to understand that Infuse is simply stronger a single-target heal than anything a Monk can bring, especially if the target is enchanted with Life Attunement. And don't give me the 'Monks can use Infuse and bring Life Attunement' crap that you've been doing the past few pages, because Monks cannot without running out of energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Oh good so my Monk can go out and use MS and SF if Eles are going to take over the Monking duties.

It means your Monk either wisens up and plays to his strengths (i.e. hex removal, party heals, instant Res via Unyielding Aura, etc) or retires. Monks have no advantage playing as an Elementalist-skill using nuker. Elementalists have plenty of advantages playing as a healer.

Like I said, people like you are a big reason why ER Elementalists haven't become more popular. They think Monks are better healers even though all the force of logic goes against them. If you're still unable to understand what me and a variety of other people have been saying then I give up, you can keep using your Monk with his oh-so-powerful Infuse + GoLE + WoH, and I'll ignore any more posts you make in this topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by king_trouble

Another serious drawback is if any of your healing spells gets d-shot, anything like that would seriously hinder you ability to heal.

Good luck DShotting Infuse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

AND ER isn't maintainable and you need maintain a certain number of enchants on yourself before ER would be used to its fullest potential but with GoR + DS, you don't need anything and its MAINTAINABLE

ER is maintainable. Glyph of Swiftness + 13 Energy Storage = Ether Renewal lasts almost as long as it cools down.

You need two enchantments for ER to work (returns 8 energy per cast, and with the spells costing 10 energy + your natural energy regen it means you pretty much have infinite energy). This is easily done. ER itself counts as one enchant, and Aura of Restoration is a 60s duration enchantment. Add in the maintained enchantment Life Attunement, and Protective Spirit on yourself if you really need it, and your teammates using stuff like Aegis, and you'll have more than infinite energy already.

/sigh

FoxBat · Feb 28, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

if you were to say GoR would be a wasted elite, wouldn't ER be wasted as well ? you would also not have [word of healing] so whats the difference ? and monks can have up to 14-16 in healing prayer attribute whereas an ele can't.

It's true that AP + DS/SS is underrated for PvE, but I'd note that the ele can infinitely spam 10e spells, while the monk is limited to 5e. And free healing for infuse is not on that list.

Still, stick DS/SS (or both) on standard heal bar, and you've usually got the extra energy to cover most dangerous spots. Tack on SoL and you've got some imba shit going. I'd be curious how well Air of Superiority would work for getting these recharged without having to spend your elite. Or even a team that was abusing Standard of Wisdom.

Monks just need to give up their honorable "ooh I'm smart gvg monk" facade if they want to compete with ER healers.

And lastly, yeah, spamming heals with an ele sure feels a lot more useful in HM than those pansy nukes.

Lusciious · Feb 28, 2009, 12:13 AM // 00:13

rit healing spells, not elites, in the restoration attribute heal for more than compared to a monk without any elites. 1 good example is [spirit light] and monsters don't know how to kill the spirit so your spirit in your area requirement for that 160+ heal could be easily met.

@Jeydra, ER + [Aura of Restoration] + [glyph of swiftness] would mean you'd only have 5 healing skills left. make that 4 if you're bringing [resurrection signet]. and you've focus on being a pure healers ( since you've none on prot prayers )

all of here knows that a hybrid is better than a pure healer / protter.

thats why monks are used instead of eles. you need points in energy storage to use ER so that limits your choice.

Jeydra · Feb 28, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

You haven't been reading the other posts earlier in this topic have you? I bet not ...

Here're three of the standard ER bars for you. Enjoy.

ER #1 - use if your entire team is full of casters (something I do when I'm with heroes / henchmen for example).

Energy Storage 11 + 1 + 1
Protection Prayers 12
Air Magic 4
Healing Prayers 5

Infuse Health
Spirit Bond
Breath of the Great Dwarf
Protective Spirit
Aura of Restoration
Ether Renewal
Life Attunement (maintain 8 copies of this)
Glyph of Swiftness

********

ER #2 - use if your team has sufficient physical DPS'ers to not use Life Attunement (otherwise known as the Ensign bar). Bar has 8 Healing Prayers to help with consecutive Infuses.

Energy Storage 11 + 1 + 1
Protection Prayers 11
Air Magic 3 + 1
Healing Prayers 8

Infuse Health
Spirit Bond
Breath of the Great Dwarf
Protective Spirit
Aura of Restoration
Ether Renewal
Great Dwarf Weapon
Glyph of Swiftness

********

ER#3 - use if the second Monk in your team does not have strong party-heals and you don't feel like coping with the -4 energy degen from 8 Life Attunements.

Energy Storage 11 + 1 + 1
Air Magic 3 + 1
Healing Prayers 11
Protection Prayers 8

Infuse Health
Mindbender
Heal Party
Protective Spirit
Aura of Restoration
Ether Renewal
Glyph of Swiftness
Great Dwarf Weapon

Conclusion: Oh yes I'm focused on being a pure healer with 0 Protection Prayers ... oh wait, you've just not been reading the thread.

Marverick · Feb 28, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

Watch my monk kill with [arcane echo] + [ray of judgment]. talk about can't nuke for shit.

[Ether Renewal] Healers can never beat a monk. simply because for a monk, you can also spam heals with [glyph of renewal] + [divine spirit] AND ER isn't maintainable and you need maintain a certain number of enchants on yourself before ER would be used to its fullest potential but with GoR + DS, you don't need anything and its MAINTAINABLE

if you were to say GoR would be a wasted elite, wouldn't ER be wasted as well ? you would also not have [word of healing] so whats the difference ? and monks can have up to 14-16 in healing prayer attribute whereas an ele can't.

accept it, ER Eles are only better than monks at protting.

nuff said.

eles should just go back and do their insane AoE damage. e.g. [savannah heat]

omg it's so hard to maintain a few enchantments... [Protective Spirit][Spirit Bond][Aura of Restoration] yada yada yada... all 1/4 cast and <5s recharge enchantments... PS + SB are also amazing at negating damage in HM and you can spam them all over the place.

Meanwhile you can spam [Infuse Health] and [Heal Party] all over the place... why do you need Word of Healing when you have Infuse and ER?....
and you seem to be missing the whole point about Infuse Health...
with ZERO healing it still heals for 300hp, which is more health than a 16 spec Word of Healing.

And for the record, YOU ONLY NEED ONE SKILL TO HEAL... enough with people saying your limiting your bar...

deluxe · Feb 28, 2009, 02:45 AM // 02:45

[shield guardian] is a decent choice instead of [heal party], fast cast and spammable.
Anyway, the average GW player will not accept E/Mo's could be better than a monk primary. Try getting a pug playing this!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Eles have stronger heals heard of Divine Favour and if you play Monk you are doing them a disservice.eles are for nuking and monks are for healing maybe infuse should be moved to Divine Favour.

Monks can't nuke hey sure about that.

So, in your eyes the good old n/rt heroes should not be healing either?
Rangers should not wield a scythe or a spear?
Monks should not be smiters?
A D/N order spammer is blasphemy?
Do you allow Rt/N minion bombers? because rits are like monks yes?

You sir are so very very very narrowminded.

Snow Bunny · Feb 28, 2009, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Eles have stronger heals heard of Divine Favour and if you play Monk you are doing them a disservice.eles are for nuking and monks are for healing maybe infuse should be moved to Divine Favour.

Monks can't nuke hey sure about that.

Age.

GET THIS.

An Ele firing off [infuse health] at 0 spec healing prayers is MORE HEALING than a monk firing off [word of healing] at it's max possible heal at 14 healing prayers.

ELES HAVE MORE ENERGY AND BIGGER HEALS. THEY SIMPLY OUTCLASS MONKS IN PURE NUMBERS.

GLOBAL WARMING IS A SCIENTIFIC FACT. HUMANS EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS. THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED. ELES HEAL FOR MORE THAN MONKS WITH AN ER/INFUSE BUILD.

Anyways,

The strip enchantments rule doesn't hold up.

Mr Emu · Feb 28, 2009, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Age.

GET THIS.

An Ele firing off [infuse health] at 0 spec healing prayers is MORE HEALING than a monk firing off [word of healing] at it's max possible heal at 14 healing prayers.

ELES HAVE MORE ENERGY AND BIGGER HEALS. THEY SIMPLY OUTCLASS MONKS IN PURE NUMBERS.

GLOBAL WARMING IS A SCIENTIFIC FACT. HUMANS EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS. THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED. ELES HEAL FOR MORE THAN MONKS WITH AN ER/INFUSE BUILD.

Anyways,

The strip enchantments rule doesn't hold up.

Amen. People should be able to speak (type) coherent English and understand basic logic before posting here. Clearly many do not qualify to these standards.